Interview With the Choreographers for Week Three of REDCAT’s NOW Festival 2024

REDCAT is in the middle of celebrating the 21^st annual NOW Festival. Week One featured works by Eliza Bagg, Rohan Chander, George R. Miller; Meena Murugesan, and Bernard Brown. Week Two presents new works by Ajani Brannum, Sophia Cleary, and Tijuana Dance Company, and Week Three will offer new original works by Bret Easterling, Mallory Fabian, and Kensaku Shinohara. All three of Week Three’s dance artists either live in or have a strong connection to Los Angeles and each agreed to answer questions regarding their work appearing at REDCAT November 21-23, 2024 at 8:30 pm. Tickets are on sale now.

Reading an artist’s biography is always interesting. Sometimes it gives a glimpse into who has influenced their work or their movement style and reading their description of a work can spark other questions. For example, what sparked their desire to become a choreographer? What was the genesis of the work? What inspired the title of the work?

Bret Easterling began performing at a very early age, earned a BFA at Julliard School in New York City and later performed with Batsheva Dance Company in Israel.

LADC:  You have been choreographing since a very young age. What sparked that desire?

BE: My mother owned a dance studio (Darlene’s Dance ’N’ Such in Fremont, California) which is where I spent almost every minute of my first years of life. My crib was placed in the studio during classes and rehearsals which immersed me in the practice of dance since before I could walk or speak.  I’ve always had the desire to craft and organize dances. I asked to help choreograph my first competition solo at 4 years old. If ever we went out to dinner, I would take the sugar packets from the table and organize them into different formations. I loved listening to music and dreaming about the movement that could exist to it.

After he left Batsheva , I was curious as to why Easterling chose to relocate to Los Angeles.

LADC: Bret, brought you to Los Angeles after touring internationally with Batsheva Dance Company?

BE: USC Kaufman was looking for a Gaga teacher and some close friends and colleagues of mine lived in the city. As a child I used to come to LA a lot for commercial work so returning to it as an adult also felt like a full circle (or around the world and back) moment.

LADC: What was the genesis of On Second Thought?

BE: ON SECOND THOUGHT originated through my research as a composition teacher. This is a space where I’m investing in developing strategies that can help artists get out of their own way inside of the creative process as well as unlock opportunities for new discoveries. First thought, best thought was an idea shared with me when I was a student at Juilliard, but this directive would sometimes lead me to produce the same movement vocabulary, speed, textures, and feelings come out in my work. I therefore wondered, if I were to intentionally and consistently follow my second instinct when at a creative junction, would it inherently take me somewhere new? The commitment to this practice is meant to alleviate the questions like what should I do? And eliminate binary judgments including good/bad or cool/uncool and empower me to generate and progress in my process. I can always come back later to edit or mold something into what the piece is asking for, but this task is designed to help me avoid being frozen from the limitless options of moves I could or should make.

LADC: Bret, this sentence that appears on your website reminds me of Merce Cunningham. “Easterling devises a new mode of decision-making and artistic exploration to craft different potentials and imagine liberatory futures.” Are you using a Chance Method when setting the material?

BE: I wouldn’t say I am using Chance Method when setting the material in its purest form.  I do think some of the methods in which we are applying our second thought research can feel like we are leaving movements/connections/placements up to chance – but essentially it is our choices that lead us through the play.

LADC: Is this a solo or a group work and will you be using props or multimedia?

BE: This is an ensemble work, steeped in collaboration with 7 dancers who are contributing their bodies and their histories to the piece. There are no props or multimedia, but there will be a backdrop to help create an environment for the work to exist inside of.

LADC: Who are the composers?

BE: My first thought was to work with a collection of composers who could each engage in this same practice through their medium of sound. After looking at the budget, my second thought was to use work from the public domain including works by Edvard Grieg, Robert Schumann, and Camille Saint-Saëns.

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I have watched Fabian grow as a dancer, performer and choreographer for several years now; many times as a soloist.

Mallory Fabian is an independent choreographer who has also performed in the LA Based company Rosanna Gamson/World Wide’s Sugar Houses choreographed by Ms. Gamson. Because Fabian’s new work has a very curt and decisive title, I Hate Women, I immediately wanted to know more.

LADC: What was the genesis of I Hate Women?

MF: The inspiration for this piece came from my observation that women can be incredibly harsh toward one another, myself included. For years, I’ve said that women only truly support each other when they’re in the bathroom—whether it’s at a club, a party, or any public place. In those moments, with our inhibitions lowered, the competition, judgment, and tension seem to dissolve, and we become instant allies, showering each other with compliments and solidarity. I’ve always wondered why this camaraderie is confined to those spaces.

However, the current political and social climate, particularly with the lingering effects of the Trump era and the MAGA movement, has amplified the urgency of this work. What began as a reflection on our interpersonal dynamics has become a larger statement on resistance and rebellion. Now is the time to be unapologetically angry. Now is the time to create art that pushes back, art that challenges the status quo. I’m pissed, and I want to channel that anger into something powerful, something that resonates. America needs this piece right now. Women need this piece.

LADC: Of the many stereotypes that “shape interactions amongst women”, which are the ones that truly get under your skin?

MF: You’ll actually hear this reflected in the piece, but the stereotype that truly gets under my skin is, “I thought you were a bitch when I first met you,” or “I thought you hated me at first.” It’s something I’ve heard my entire life, and I know I’m not alone—it’s a perception that shapes so many first interactions between women. What’s worse is that I’ve felt this way about other women, too, almost instinctively. Breaking out of that mindset has been an ongoing challenge for me, and I’m actively working to change it. A month ago, a coworker and I had an honest conversation about how we both thought that initially, and how wrong that assumption turned out to be.

Another stereotype that bothers me is the underlying competitive nature that arises when women size each other up. It can be as subtle as noticing what another woman is wearing at the grocery store and comparing it to yourself, wondering if it looks better on her than it does on you. It’s such an ugly, unnecessary behavior, and I no longer want any part of it.

LADC: Why the title, I Hate Women?

MF: I Hate Women is a title that terrifies me. My original idea was to call the piece Women Hate Women, with a playful tag like, “except when drunk in line at the bathroom at a club.” But early in the development process, I had a conversation with my friend Darby Kelley (thank you), who insisted that I Hate Women was the stronger, more impactful title. At first, I resisted it. I don’t hate women, and I feared the audience might leave my piece thinking I did, which was never my intention.

Yet, as I reflected on my own behavior toward women—things I’ve said and done—I realized that it might appear that way. More importantly, the title speaks to a much larger truth: it’s not just me; it’s society. I believe everyone, consciously or unconsciously, carries some level of resentment or judgment toward women. The world, America especially, demonstrates this in countless ways. We legislate women’s bodies, enforce mandatory pregnancies, restrict birth control options—all symptoms of a culture steeped in patriarchy and internalized misogyny.

So, while I Hate Women is bold and unsettling, it’s absolutely necessary. It forces people to confront their own biases, their complicity. It’s a title that strikes a chord and demands reflection, which is exactly the impact I want this piece to have.

LADC: Is this work a solo and are you using props or multimedia?

MF: This piece is actually a quartet, featuring two main performers and two actors, structured like a boxing match. The set itself includes a boxing ring, which is held up by four human props, daunting male figures. The entire piece unfolds in rounds, with each round introducing a different theatrical element. This structure allows the performance to shift in tone and energy, creating a dynamic, layered experience for the audience.

LADC:  Who is the composer?

I actually did the sound design for this piece myself. Some of the tracks you’ll hear were created by me, using free sound samples I found online. In addition, we incorporate a few well-known tracks into the piece. One of them is Flowers by Moby, and another is a murder ballad called Cruel Sister by Pentangle, which we sing live. We also use a string quartet version of Cruel Sister within the piece. The final track featured is the Flower Duet from the opera, which is all credited in the program.

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Originally from Japan, Sapporo, Ken Sakou [Kensaku] Shinohara is a LA-based choreographer performer who moved to New York in 2009 where he worked with Yoshiko Chuma, Daria Fang, and Ishmael Houston Jones. He also presented his own works around movement, research, and community at Jasmine Church, St. Mark’s Church, Queen’s Museum and also toured in Italy, Canada, Malaysia, Japan, and Taiwan. In 2018, Shinohara relocated to the West Coast to earn an MFA at CalArts. In LA his work has been presented at the Japanese American Cultural Community Center as well as in San Francisco. Most recently, Shinohara has been touring with Dimitri Chamblas + Kim Gordon. His work focuses on the social aspect or the values or ruptures or conflicts or boundaries that we often ignore or do not talk about or kind of hidden behind everyday life, but he is interested in visualizing as a performance in an abstract way.

LADC: I love the title of your work, tired music concert. What music are you referring to exactly?

KS: I like the title as well, Tired Music Concert makes me feel… tired like we are all tired, like, you know, everyday life or I’m tired as an artist or as a dad or as a human being. It sounds low-key or casual or loose because it doesn’t sound appropriate for the production of the art. I don’t know, but I like the concept that it’s okay not to be okay. You know, we are all tired. We are not okay with ourselves. Tired is a concept of letting that be feasible or feeling it together.

I kind of like calling it music concert when It is still like, in a way, a movement-based performance but music is such a big concept or a vague concept, music concert and like sounds like more gathering or, you know, drinking alcohol and then being loud or as opposed to like being sit still sitting and staying in the theater and then like ready to watch dance so I’ve been trying to find a way to kind of like massage the concept of watching dance and that’s also the reason that I’ve been participating  in a band practicing and then performing every couple months and I want to break my own habit of watching dance or making dance creating a community of dance, kind of like how can we be more relaxed and then be more fresh and enjoy more than trying to establish a form of dance so yeah, that’s why this title worked to me.

LADC: What was the genesis of this work, tired music concert?

KS: I have made three or four concepts. The first one is music. The last few years I worked on more movement-based works as a solo or group and kind of like more dance setting which was great but as I look for something new. I started to feel or get interested in how different communities are created differently and the different energy around the vibes and as I look back, my teenage years as a musicians playing the guitar, you know going to the bar or listen to the music or doing the dive or moshing or being loud where  I felt so different from the theater culture. I can recall those days or the combine them with my current practice.

Just the concept of music started to come into my head a lot and not like talking about music for dance but more like the concept of music and how I can kind of grab that for the next research. I started to you know look for collaborators in different ways and then I started to contact people that I haven’t worked with before or the actors or musicians

The other element is like the big set. So I get this opportunity with REDCAT, in LA, where I live, and I have a car so maybe I can work on the bigger set design, which I haven’t worked before. So I was interested in something big and that’s how we are using the big ramp.

Currently, and the last element is that I’ve been interested in the nude and the kids which maybe you could see as a taboo or not appropriate but I’m interested in questioning why and or how that can coexist or why is it? So just like looking for a crossing of those concepts.

So I have three or four main ideas that I wanted to research. The REDCAT is the first version of this research. So I’m super excited for the next years that it will keep developing and then I hope to come back to showing [my work] in L.A.

LADC: I asked Shinohara about the music for this work at REDCAT and if he was using multi-media.

KS: I have a composer, Dionne Marks, an LA-based musician who I’ve been collaborating with a lot in the last few years for different projects. He’s writing a track for me on the sound. We pretty much work with the object based or the movement so [it is] very raw – a lot of improvisation, but also different performance components around.

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LADC: I asked all three choreographers if there was a question that they wished I had asked about their work.

Bret Easterling: I view my work as sets of formulas and rules where the dancers and their movements act as variables that lead to a limitless number of unique solutions. I am looking to blur the line between what set materials and improvised forms look like so that the viewer is unsure what is set and what is being made up in real time and will have to come back to see what changes between presentations. While the work is abstract, I am hoping for the audience to find empathy with the creatives who are solving problems in real time and striving to unlock something new inside of their artistry.

The creation of this work is an extension of my broader interests in providing nurturing spaces for the research and development of movement practices in Los Angeles and beyond as Founder and Artistic Director of BEMOVING, Founder and Co-Director of Ghost Light Residency, and one of the minds behind the PAY DANCERS advocacy campaign.

Mallory Fabian: There isn’t a question I wish you had asked, but I do want to take a moment to give a shout-out to Clementine Gamson Levy. I would not have been able to create this piece without her. She shares equal creative ownership and collaboration in this work. Initially, it was my idea, and going into rehearsals, we both expected the piece to be much more angsty and brutal. While it is brutal in its own way, what emerged is also a very comedic and clown-like piece—nothing like what I originally envisioned. I have Clementine to thank for that shift. Her expertise in the areas where I’m less skilled has been instrumental in how this piece unfolded.

Working with Clementine has been the easiest creative process I’ve ever experienced. I’ve never collaborated with anyone as seamless and supportive as she has been. I’m incredibly grateful to her, and I’m excited to see where this piece goes next. I truly believe it deserves attention and a future life, potentially even a tour. Since June, Clementine and I have been working tirelessly on this piece, with support from WIP, an initiative by Stephanie Zaletel and Kate Wallich. I believe in this work, and I’m thrilled to share it with audiences after the NOW Fest.

Kensaku Shinohara: I’m into the question that in the time of war or genocide or huge conflict between people and countries. The question of what art can do or artists can do and I do believe the art does a lot. It allows the question to be visible or embodies embodied; can be obstruction storytelling but the art can be a gathering where people come together and watch together and talk about it or think together not necessary right away, but also we can take home and then keep the question with them for longer a period of time. It’s such a great way of questioning.

I think the practice of art teaches us a lot when we live or face what’s going on. And I just hope these difficult questions stay with us.

The NOW Festival 2024 runs November 21 – 23 at REDCAT. All performances begin at 8:30 pm. For more information and to purchase tickets, please visit the REDCAT website.

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Written by Jeff Slayton for LA Dance Chronicle.

Featured image: REDCAT NOW Festival 2024 – (L-R) Bret Easterling, Kensaku Shinohara, Mallory Fabian – Photos by Angel Origgi, collage by LADC.